The legality of "rave" samples

Nobody has claimed this yet.

Quoting DmitryLeon2000 at the forums: https://lmms.io/forum/viewtopic.php?t=29986

> I just pointed out that some samples in LMMS are identical to those in Rave eJay.
>
> Bass: roots 3 -> `bassloopes/rave_bass01.ogg`
> Bass: clear two + off -> `bassloopes/rave_bass02.ogg`
> Drum: hihat gold 3 -> `beats/rave_hihat01.ogg`
> Drum: hihat smooth 4 -> `beats/rave_hihat02.ogg`
> Drum: kick D groove 1 -> `beats/rave_kick01.ogg`
> Drum: kick C groove 1 -> `beats/rave_kick02.ogg`
> Drum: snare hype 1 -> `beats/rave_snare01.ogg`

In addition to these samples being made available with the Rave eJay software, they're also available on a samples CD which was sold in Germany in the late 90s:

CD Cover:

Besides the claims that the sounds are identical, the origin (and thus license) is of concern, since the license it was obtained is more important than the license in which it was found (due to complexities with relicensing) but the evidence that these samples were part of a commercial software product called "Rave eJay" and all contain the word "rave" in their name is quite suggestive.

Fedora takes this a step further: https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/lmms/blob/rawhide/f/README.fedora

Click to show list

> ```
> For legal reasons, the following files have been removed from the
> lmms/data/projects/demos/Alf42red-Mauiwowi.mmpz
> lmms/data/projects/demos/AngryLlama-NewFangled.mmpz
> lmms/data/projects/demos/Ashore.mmpz
> lmms/data/projects/demos/CapDan/CapDan-ReggaeTry.mmpz
> lmms/data/projects/demos/CapDan/CapDan-ReggaetonTry.mmpz
> lmms/data/projects/demos/CapDan/CapDan-TwilightArea-OriginalByAlf42red.mmpz
> lmms/data/projects/demos/CapDan/CapDan-ZeroSumGame-OriginalByZakarra.mmpz
> lmms/data/projects/demos/DnB.mmpz
> lmms/data/projects/demos/EsoXLB-CPU.mmpz
> lmms/data/projects/demos/Farbro-Tectonic.mmpz
> lmms/data/projects/demos/Greippi - Krem Kaakkuja (Second Flight Remix).mmpz
> lmms/data/projects/demos/Impulslogik-Zen.mmpz
> lmms/data/projects/demos/Jousboxx-BuzzerBeater.mmpz
> lmms/data/projects/demos/Momo64-esp.mmpz
> lmms/data/projects/demos/Namitryus-K-Project.mmpz
> lmms/data/projects/demos/Oglsdl-Dr8v2.mmpz
> lmms/data/projects/demos/Oglsdl-PpTrip.mmpz
> lmms/data/projects/demos/Popsip-Electric Dancer.mmpz
> lmms/data/projects/demos/Root84-Initialize.mmpz
> lmms/data/projects/demos/Saber-FinalStep.mmpz
> lmms/data/projects/demos/Settel-InnerRecreation.mmpz
> lmms/data/projects/demos/Shovon-ProgressiveHousePluckDemo.mmpz
> lmms/data/projects/demos/Skiessi/Skiessi-C64.mmpz
> lmms/data/projects/demos/Skiessi/Skiessi-Onion.mmpz
> lmms/data/projects/demos/Skiessi/Skiessi-RandomProjectNumber14253.mmpz
> lmms/data/projects/demos/Skiessi/Skiessi-TurningPoint.mmpz
> lmms/data/projects/demos/Socceroos-Progress.mmpz
> lmms/data/projects/demos/StrictProduction-DearJonDoe.mmp
> lmms/data/projects/demos/TameAnderson-MakeMe.mmpz
> lmms/data/projects/demos/Thaledric-Armageddon.mmpz
> lmms/data/projects/demos/Thomasso-AxeFromThe80s.mmpz
> lmms/data/projects/demos/TobyDox-Psycho.mmpz
> lmms/data/projects/demos/unfa-Spoken.mmpz
> lmms/data/projects/shorties/Crunk(Demo).mmp
> lmms/data/projects/shorties/DirtyLove.mmpz
> lmms/data/projects/shorties/Greshz-CoolSnip.mmpz
> lmms/data/projects/shorties/Root84-TrancyLoop.mmpz
> lmms/data/projects/shorties/Skiessi-222.mmpz
> lmms/data/projects/shorties/Surrender-Main.mmpz
> lmms/data/projects/shorties/sv-DnB-Startup.mmpz
> lmms/data/projects/shorties/sv-Trance-Startup.mmpz
> lmms/data/projects/tutorials/editing_note_volumes.mmp
> lmms/data/samples/basses/bass01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/basses/bass_acid01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/basses/bass_acid02.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/basses/bass_hard01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/basses/bass_hard02.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/basses/bass_punch01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/basses/horror_bass01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/basses/matrix1000_pluck01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/basses/rave_bass01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/basses/rave_bass02.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/basses/rave_bass03.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/basses/rave_bass04.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/basses/synth_acid01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/basses/synth_acid02.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/basses/techno_synth01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/bassloops/briff01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/bassloops/rave_bass01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/bassloops/rave_bass02.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/bassloops/tb303_01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/bassloops/techno_bass01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/bassloops/techno_bass02.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/bassloops/techno_synth01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/bassloops/techno_synth02.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/bassloops/techno_synth03.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/bassloops/techno_synth04.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/beats/909beat01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/beats/break01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/beats/break02.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/beats/break03.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/beats/electro_beat01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/beats/electro_beat02.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/beats/house_loop01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/beats/jungle01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/beats/rave_hihat01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/beats/rave_hihat02.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/beats/rave_kick01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/beats/rave_kick02.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/beats/rave_snare01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/drums/bassdrum01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/drums/bassdrum02.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/drums/bassdrum03.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/drums/bassdrum04.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/drums/bassdrum_acoustic01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/drums/bassdrum_acoustic02.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/drums/clap01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/drums/clap02.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/drums/clap03.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/drums/clap04.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/drums/clav01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/drums/clav02.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/drums/crash01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/drums/crash02.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/drums/hihat_closed01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/drums/hihat_closed02.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/drums/hihat_closed03.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/drums/hihat_closed04.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/drums/hihat_closed05.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/drums/hihat_foot_pedal01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/drums/hihat_opened01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/drums/hihat_opened02.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/drums/hihat_opened03.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/drums/kick01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/drums/kick02.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/drums/kick03.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/drums/kick04.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/drums/kick_distorted01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/drums/kick_hard01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/drums/kick_hardcore01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/drums/kick_hiphop01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/drums/kick_long01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/drums/kick_soft01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/drums/kick_soft02.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/drums/nasty_bass01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/drums/nasty_rim01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/drums/nasty_snare01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/drums/ride01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/drums/ride02.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/drums/rim01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/drums/shaker01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/drums/shaker02.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/drums/shaker03.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/drums/sidestick01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/drums/snare01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/drums/snare02.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/drums/snare03.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/drums/snare04.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/drums/snare05.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/drums/snare06.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/drums/snare07.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/drums/snare_acoustic01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/drums/snare_electro01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/drums/snare_harsh01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/drums/snare_hiphop01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/drums/snare_hiphop02.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/drums/snare_muffled01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/drums/snare_muffled02.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/drums/snare_rim01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/drums/snare_short01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/drums/tom01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/drums/tom02.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/drums/tom03.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/drums/tom04.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/drums/tom05.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/drums/tom_hi01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/drums/tom_low01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/drums/tom_mid01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/drums/wood01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/drums/zap01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/drums/zap02.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/drums/zap03.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/effects/chroma_sound_effect01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/effects/explode01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/effects/filter_sweep01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/effects/scratch01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/effects/start01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/effects/start02.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/effects/stop01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/effects/warp01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/effects/warp02.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/effects/wind_chimes01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/instruments/bassslap01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/instruments/bassslap02.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/instruments/cello01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/instruments/church_organ01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/instruments/church_organ02.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/instruments/church_organ03.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/instruments/church_organ04.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/instruments/e_organ01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/instruments/e_piano_accord01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/instruments/e_piano_accord02.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/instruments/flute01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/instruments/harpsichord01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/instruments/piano01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/instruments/piano02.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/instruments/steel_guitar01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/instruments/steel_guitar_heavy_distorted01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/instruments/steel_guitar_medium_distorted01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/instruments/steel_guitar_slight_distorted01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/instruments/trumpet01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/instruments/violin_double_stop01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/instruments/violin_fingered01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/instruments/violin_pizzicato01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/latin/latin_brass01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/latin/latin_guitar01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/latin/latin_guitar02.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/latin/latin_guitar03.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/misc/applause01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/misc/bass!.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/misc/breath01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/misc/buzz!.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/misc/dong01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/misc/dong02.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/misc/dong03.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/misc/electric_ping01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/misc/hit01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/misc/hit02.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/misc/metalish_dong01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/misc/metronome01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/misc/metronome02.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/misc/raving_crowd01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/misc/snaph01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/misc/undefined01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/shapes/additive.wav
> lmms/data/samples/shapes/additive2.wav
> lmms/data/samples/shapes/bunglist.wav
> lmms/data/samples/shapes/bunglist2.wav
> lmms/data/samples/shapes/bunglist3.wav
> lmms/data/samples/shapes/bunglist4.wav
> lmms/data/samples/shapes/bunglist5.wav
> lmms/data/samples/shapes/bunglist6.wav
> lmms/data/samples/shapes/bunglist7.wav
> lmms/data/samples/shapes/bunglist8.wav
> lmms/data/samples/shapes/bunglist9.wav
> lmms/data/samples/shapes/harmonics.wav
> lmms/data/samples/shapes/low_sine.wav
> lmms/data/samples/shapes/micro.wav
> lmms/data/samples/shapes/moog.wav
> lmms/data/samples/shapes/roundbass.wav
> lmms/data/samples/shapes/roundsaw.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/shapes/saw+sine.wav
> lmms/data/samples/shapes/sine_dist.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/shapes/smooth_inv_saw.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/shapes/smooth_inv_saw2.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/shapes/smooth_inv_saw_dist.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/shapes/technobass.wav
> lmms/data/samples/shapes/technosynth1.wav
> lmms/data/samples/shapes/technosynth2.wav
> lmms/data/samples/shapes/technosynth3.wav
> lmms/data/samples/shapes/technosynth4.wav
> lmms/data/samples/shapes/technosynth5.wav
> lmms/data/samples/shapes/technosynth6.wav
> lmms/data/samples/shapes/vowel_a.wav
> lmms/data/samples/shapes/vowel_u.wav
> lmms/data/samples/stringsnpads/bell_choir01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/stringsnpads/bell_choir02.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/stringsnpads/chorus01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/stringsnpads/chorus02.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/stringsnpads/heaven_strings01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/stringsnpads/juno_pad01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/stringsnpads/korg_poly6_drone01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/stringsnpads/nord_ambient01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/stringsnpads/orion_string01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/stringsnpads/rave_choir01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/stringsnpads/space_strings01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/stringsnpads/space_strings02.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/stringsnpads/space_strings03.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/stringsnpads/strings01.ogg
> lmms/data/samples/waveforms/10saw.flac
> lmms/data/samples/waveforms/10sine.flac
> lmms/data/samples/waveforms/10sqr.flac
> lmms/data/samples/waveforms/10tri.flac
> lmms/data/samples/waveforms/analogsqr.flac
> lmms/data/samples/waveforms/fmsaw1.flac
> lmms/data/samples/waveforms/fmsine.flac
> lmms/data/samples/waveforms/fmsine2.flac
> lmms/data/samples/waveforms/halfsine.flac
> lmms/data/samples/waveforms/impulse.flac
> lmms/data/samples/waveforms/lfo_trancegate_quarter.flac
> lmms/data/samples/waveforms/lfo_trancegate_sawdecay_quarter.flac
> lmms/data/samples/waveforms/lfo_trancegate_sinedecay_quarter.flac
> lmms/data/samples/waveforms/lfo_trancegate_triplet_half.flac
> lmms/data/samples/waveforms/lfo_trancegate_triplet_half_2.flac
> lmms/data/samples/waveforms/lfo_trancegate_triplet_quarter.flac
> lmms/data/samples/waveforms/lfo_trancegate_whole.flac
> lmms/data/samples/waveforms/lfo_trancegate_whole_2.flac
> lmms/data/samples/waveforms/modsqr.flac
> lmms/data/samples/waveforms/saw1.flac
> lmms/data/samples/waveforms/saw2.flac
> lmms/data/samples/waveforms/sinesaw.flac
> lmms/data/samples/waveforms/w2_addsyn.flac
> lmms/data/samples/waveforms/w2_angrysaw.flac
> lmms/data/samples/waveforms/w2_hexagon.flac
> lmms/data/samples/waveforms/w2_invsine.flac
> lmms/data/samples/waveforms/w2_invsineabs.flac
> lmms/data/samples/waveforms/w2_invsinehalf.flac
> lmms/data/samples/waveforms/w2_noisy.flac
> lmms/data/samples/waveforms/w2_rad.flac
> lmms/data/samples/waveforms/w2_sawsine.flac
> lmms/data/samples/waveforms/w2_sharp.flac
> lmms/data/samples/waveforms/w2_w-wave.flac
> lmms/tests/emptyproject.mmp
> ```

The 90's timing of this, the German origins inspired me to ask the original author of LMMS, Tobias Junghans (formerly Tobias Doerffel). This is our email exchange:

> > Fri, Mar 15, 2019, 3:46 PM EST
> > Hi, [Toby] I hope all is well!
> >
> > Some distros are blacklisting the rave_bass01.ogg and friends stating they're not legally cleared. I did some research and found out that there was a sample CD sold predominantly in Germany by Marc Gminder containing these samples and wanted to find out your memory of it, or if you -- by chance -- still had this 20+ year old CD laying around so we could document it properly. :)
> >
> > We have an ongoing effort to redo the samples with clear CC0 on each, but there's only so much time in the day. :)
> >
> >If we can find some background info and/or evidence that these samples have a license that allows re-use we can add it to the software until we finish the cleanup. If not, we'll probably jump on the Fedora bandwagon and just remove them.
> > [...]
>
> Mon, Mar 18, 2019, 11:20 AM EST
> Hi Tres,
>
> unfortunately I don't remember where I took the samples from, likely extracted
from some old songs from the 90th. So you'd better drop it and/or replace it
appropriately.

Although this project aims to fix these types of mistakes, I wanted to document this all in once place as the internet has a way of losing track of information. If more information (or permission from the current copyright holders) surfaces, please post it here to keep it in a centralized place.

Start with the listed lmms/data/samples/bassloops/rave_bass01.ogg, rave_bass02.ogg, and lmms/data/samples/beats/rave_*.ogg files, then compare the forum evidence with Fedora's README.fedora. Done requires a maintainer-confirmed decision about the samples' provenance and licensing, followed by an agreed asset action.

Written by the indexing model from the issue text.